Resonance Episode: When Things Go Awry

In this episode of Resonance, Steve, Mike and Randy discuss the inevitability of challenges in business and music, emphasizing the importance of leadership in crisis management. They explore the role of fixers within organizations, the necessity of calmness and discernment in decision-making, and the impact of internal dynamics on performance. The conversation highlights the significance of foundational elements in both music and business, and how leaders can differentiate their organizations through a focus on service experience. In this episode, the hosts discuss the complexities of leadership, team dynamics, and the importance of accountability in navigating challenges within organizations. They reflect on the rise and fall of Blackberry as a case study, emphasizing the need for chemistry among leadership teams and the dangers of creating echo chambers. The conversation also delves into the concept of constraints in business, highlighting how understanding and addressing these constraints can lead to success. The importance of stability and accountability in leadership is underscored, with practical insights on fostering a culture of open communication and reflection within teams.

 Takeaways

Things going awry is inevitable in business and life.

Leaders set the emotional tone for their organizations.

Calmness in leadership can prevent panic among team members.

Discernment is crucial for effective decision-making.

Fixers are essential for navigating crises in organizations.

Tension and release are fundamental in both music and leadership.

Internal dynamics can significantly affect performance.

Good leadership requires a pause to reorient during crises.

Foundational elements are critical for success in business.

Differentiating through service experience is key to standing out. Things can function despite chaos, but why?

Leadership chemistry is crucial for success.

Tension in leadership teams leads to blame.

Surround yourself with trusted individuals.

Constraints are the key to understanding performance.

The mindset of a leader can be a constraint.

Stability provides a foundation during challenges.

Accountability must flow both ways in teams.

Reflection after challenges fosters growth.

Identifying constraints can lead to continuous improvement.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Challenges in Business and Music

02:54 The Role of Leadership in Crisis Management

05:55 The Importance of Fixers in Organizations

08:58 The Power of Calmness and Discernment

12:02 Tension and Release in Music and Leadership

14:49 The Impact of Internal Band Dynamics on Performance

17:57 The Consequences of Poor Leadership Responses

21:00 The Importance of Foundational Elements in Business

23:56 Differentiating Through Service Experience

24:50 The Rise and Fall of Blackberry

26:00 Leadership Chemistry and Team Dynamics

30:55 The Echo Chamber Effect in Leadership

32:52 Understanding Constraints in Business

36:52 Stability and Accountability in Leadership

43:08 Navigating Challenges and Constraints

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

This is Resonance, the podcast for leaders that unpacks the power of song, silence, and strategy.

SPEAKER_01 0:13

We believe the great leadership begins with deep listening, not just to others, but to the still small voice within.

SPEAKER_03 0:21

It's not just about being a successful leader, it's about being soulfully aligned as well.

SPEAKER_01 0:27

In a world moving fast, resonance invites you to pause and reconnect with purpose, people, and possibilities.

SPEAKER_00 0:33

We'll dive into some cool stories, celebrate with friends, and dig deep into the music too. Cause song has a way of saying what words cannot alone.

SPEAKER_01 0:44

So whether you're leading a business, a team, or just trying to lead your own life with more meaning, this is Resonance. Resonance, Resonance.

SPEAKER_00 0:53

Hey folks, Steve Azar here with my pals Mike, the monk guy Farrell, Randy Harrington, the PhD. Excited for you guys tuning in yet another episode of Resonance. No, we're not going away. We're here to stay. Go to resonanceleader.com to check out everywhere you stream and obviously see us on YouTube as well if you want to stare at us while we communicate like we do. Excited about today's topic, guys. When things go awry in business and life, uh maybe personal, personally at your family, a lot of that happens. If you've lived long enough, you're definitely going to go through some uh challenges along the way. But I can tell you, when things go awry in the music business, let me just give you an example. First of all, it happens a lot. Second of all, it's so funny because at my show, when I'm introducing Chris Schultz, who's been with me 26 years, the second longest tenure in my band, his dad was called the fixer in the music business. He was a military guy, and he would go out on the road when all of the personalities, especially when you're doing it creative types, you know, minus me, of course. I'm tougher than that. No. But, you know, and he would have to go in there, and when they saw him coming, they went, uh-oh. Like, uh-oh, he's here. Things are gonna get fixed. You just never know what's happening personality-wise on a tour bus or on a whole tour, or when you're on the road with other acts, and things can go sideways pretty quick, and you need somebody to come in and be diplomatic and get everybody back on the same page because you're out there trying to be entertainers, not distractors, I guess is the best way. So, Mike, I want to kick it to you first. Obviously, you have to deal with a lot of businesses that probably when you go in, things are a little sideways. Uh you can take it from the yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:39

Yeah, I you know, I I think the the interesting part about it is things going awry is is inevitable, you know, and they happen. They happen in business, you know, the best laid plans, as they say. But I think the the most important aspect of that is how you respond when things go awry. As a leader, people are looking to you to see if if you go into panic mode, I can guarantee you everybody else is going into panic mode with you. And so really understanding that immediate reaction is so critical to the business, the organization, whatever it is, because that's what people watch. The people are watching what that first response is when things go off the rails. And so I think it's important as a leader to understand that. And really I think, you know, one of the things is I talk to leaders about is being prepared for it. You know, the the one thing that I've seen leaders that have, you know, when they haven't dealt with those things very well, a lot of the reasons why they haven't dealt with them very, very well is they haven't really kind of played out those kinds of scenarios to see. I mean, Randy, you know, talked uh in a previous issue or episode about you know mapping out the upstream what's going to happen type stuff versus you know just going along with the flow. So I think really understanding, and you know, we've talked about this Bonnie world and all of those kinds of things, understanding that preparation is vital if you're gonna be able to respond to things when they go off the railroad tracks. And so really uh that's a character issue, and we're gonna talk a lot about that in the next issue, but or next episode. But I think the this idea of preparation, of calmness, of rootedness, of stability. You hear me talk about those Benedictine things all the time, making sure that when there is a storm, when things are are going crazy, you're rooted in the ground and you've got it under control. And, you know, you you might, you know, you might be the duck on a pond. You might look like you're just uh cruising along and in control and underneath the water, the feet are going a million miles an hour, but that's okay. Because if people see that calmness on the outside, then they're going to calm down, settle down. And, you know, in today's world, I mean, all you've got to do is look at what's going on around the world today. There's a lot of these things going awry all the time. And how we respond to those is absolutely critical to the business, to the organization, and certainly and especially to the people. And Randy, I know that you've seen lots of things.

SPEAKER_03 5:18

And there's two good points that you guys have made already that I want to underline. The first one, Steve, is this idea of the fixer. And uh I think that is something that every business needs to have this sensibility about, and that you're going to need somebody who operates a little bit more as a free agent across the organization, who has access to resources, who can make decisions on the spot, and who knows the business well enough. So fixers are a thing. Often they're your managers or your mid-managers or wherever they are, but God love them, because these are the people that can that can interrupt what would otherwise be a cascade of failure. They can stop it quicker. So if you don't have a fixer or you don't know who your fixer is in the organization, that's a good thing. That's just a good uh experiment for your your thought process as a leadership team. And then, Mike, I couldn't agree more that I think you hit really two points very powerfully. One is holy smokes, the leader is setting the emotional tone of the organization all the time. And you are exactly correct that when something goes sideways, and it absolutely will, everybody is going to immediately look at that leader, not from the point of view that they're shocked that something went sideways. They know, they probably even know why it went sideways, right? So they're not surprised. What they're gonna be interested, though, in is how do you react. And, you know, there's you could say that those reactions could be clumped into, you know, one bucket we might call crappy reactions, which is I'm gonna blame whoever's, you know, there. I'm going to deflect it. I'm going to ensure that I'm not the one who's responsible. I'm going to increase the suffering, whatever. There's there's crappy responses. But the positive responses, I think you hit that. That's the one I wanted to zoom in on, is really about, I'm going to use a bigger word, equanimity. It's about being, it's just like, it's not that you're unfazed, it's that you're not knocked off balance. It's that we're seeing you process it and go, oh, okay. So even though I I I'm aware of it, I can see it. And so one of the things I love is when a leader hears bad news and then just starts asking questions calmly, two or three questions calmly. Right. There's another consultant that I'm working with right now who is a pretty bright individual, and he said something I liked very much. I'm gonna put some other words around this. But he said when you run into one of these things where you get sort of uh T-boned by a problem, you didn't expect it. It just sort of hits you from the side and you never you weren't ready for it. He said that what you want to do, the first thing you want to do is stop. And it sounds simple, but it's like you have this bias to action immediately. Oh, I got hit, I gotta fight, or I've gotta do something, or I've gotta uh and it's like stop. And then don't continue to add force to the problem, and then think about the questions that you need to ask, the two or three questions. And he said, I said, Well, you know, that sounds like just good common sense. And he says, No, no, no, no. It's a it's a discipline, it's a habit that you get into. Something happens, and instead of rushing into it with force, you take a stop. And I said, Well, people, people are they want to get stuff done, they can't be stopping. And he goes, I'm talking about doing this discipline in the time it takes to eat a donut. And I thought that was a very nice way to underline that. He's just saying, How long does it take to eat a donut? Well, it's probably more than a minute, but it's not more than five minutes.

SPEAKER_00 8:37

Not if it's a hot shiplease from Greenville, Mississippi. It dissolves immediately. Oh, that's you're you're looking probably at a best.

SPEAKER_03 8:51

I didn't realize I was with professional donor.

SPEAKER_00 8:53

I would say a maximum of 18 seconds for hot shiplease. That's all I'm saying.

SPEAKER_03 8:57

So maybe we'll maybe we'll say bagel. How long it takes to eat a bagel? That's a little bit that'll slow you down a little bit more.

SPEAKER_02 9:04

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 9:05

But but I I thought it was just a nice thing because what he's what he's trying to say is he's saying it's not about it's not about change your life or do a thing. It's just that pause. And we've talked about that pause many times where you get reoriented. And this is the thing that I think we want to say is that the problem with when things go awry in business is you lose your orientation and you don't know what's important anymore. And so questions have the questions are the way you are going to reorient yourself. That's that's what has to happen. So anyway, I was just applauding you guys for being like uh switched on from the very beginning of this with good takeaways from the from the Go ahead, Mike.

SPEAKER_00 9:43

No, you go ahead, Mike. I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_01 9:44

You know, I think one of the things to create this habitual method in D-Lay and I think you'd you'd do it the same, whether it's good news or whether it's bad news. Yeah. That's how you create that, but really understanding the difference between discernment and between decision making. Ooh. Discernment allows you to ask the questions, acquire the information, think about it from an intentional standpoint, what do you need to do? And then make sure that it aligns with what the organization's higher purpose vision is, what their mission is, and that kind of thing. Too many, I think too many times leaders react and they just it's it's almost like they completely forget about their vision and mission and purpose and they just respond, you know. And if you go through uh, and and again, uh, you know, a discernment process probably takes about three donuts, but you know, if you can go through that process and and understand that that's that's different than this knee-jerk, quick, I need to make a decision. I would, I mean, unless it's life and death, I would argue that very few div decisions in business have to be made within 30 seconds.

SPEAKER_02 10:56

Right, right.

SPEAKER_01 10:57

Yeah, you know, uh there is there is always enough time if we take a breath. You know, the listeners have heard me use this term ad ad nauseum. The idea of stazio, of this idea, this Benedictine idea of pausing is so important because it allows us to take a breath, collect ourselves, think about the right questions to ask. What kind of data do I need to gather to make a decision, and then get input from others, you know, and then then I'm ready to make a decision. That's that's a good discernment process versus a knee-jerk reaction decision. I love it.

SPEAKER_00 11:33

Okay, there's no notes right now. I'm gonna say one more thing and then I'm gonna have it. Yeah, good. I have notes because I want to make sure you guys know I'm I want to know that you guys know that I'm on your page right now. All right. So Randy, what do you got to say, Randy? What's up?

SPEAKER_03 11:45

So, you know, I was thinking about music. I was thinking about actually some of your music, and we were talking about your music when I was playing some the other night. And one of the things that we identified, uh, there's a guy who's a bass player that's in our household now, and he we were talking about bass lines and how important they are. But one of the things that uh he said is that the bass line establishes the potential for tension and release. And I liked that. Tension and release is the heart and soul of music. I mean, that's that's what it's all about. It's that you feel that that minor chord and then you feel the major chord. And so there's these, there's these just constant moments of tension and release. And this is what you're talking about, Mike. It's stazio is that moment of release. So the the the what thing when you get bad news, when something goes south, boom, that's the tension. You're not it you should immediately go to, okay, what's the release from that? How do I step back from that? How do I get perspective on that? Because if I don't, 100% you're reacting emotionally, you're reacting impulsively, and there's a high likelihood you're going to, here's another big word, exacerbate the problem that you've already got. And you're gonna make it worse instead of making it better. And that's what we see as consultants all the time. A problem that was a problem, and then it doesn't get dealt with well, and then three years later, it's a crisis. That's organization-wise.

SPEAKER_00 12:59

I think I was gonna ask you about that, and you just answered that. Uh let me just say this you bring up bass players, right? So let me I've always been a fan of a bass player that my my dear buddy AJ Masters, who's passed away a number of years ago, was a guitar player first, that became a bass player, that was a guitar player, that was a bass player, and he was always really good. I said, I want it to sound like the 70s. I want the bass line to matter. You know what I mean? Not get in the way, but matter. And so a lot of my songs, if you start tearing into them, you're gonna notice a lot of bass parts. This is what we were doing. Exactly. Boom boom, boom, boom. They're doing things that are interesting the listener. So, and so let's back up even further. Drums and bass. Yeah if you lay down the right track with drums and bass, so back up even further, you gotta have the song first. But if if Christmas, a Christmas tree in lights, you think about that, a really good, full Christmas tree that's really beautiful, you put it in the stand, that's your that's your drums. And then you have to put lights on it. And you put the lights all throughout it and you weave in and out. And once you look at that tree and you light it up and it's so full, you've already got the base. You can't mess a Christmas tree up at that point to me. I mean, you start adding bells and whistles at that point, which are ornaments and da-da-da-da-da. And you know you can stop and you can pull things off. And that's the same with music. If you've got that bass and rhythm track down, then bingo bango, you have got the potential to make a great record if the song holds up. Because it's got all starts with the song. Now, y'all brought something up. I was gonna talk about Stacia, which I call pistachio, which is in my term an example. Um but but you talked about this, and and I said, you know, you get someone that's not a thinker. So you you got this not crisis yet, but you've got things going awry, they're going sideways, and you go in there, and I guess if you were hot-headed or um or impulsive or you know, very reactive to situations in a negative way, I guess for a moment you could get everybody in line because they're they fear you. But long term, long-term, and things to work for a long time, and not them, not the people in the office talking about you after work because that person's insane. And then that what does that cause in long-term health of a company or health of a band or help health of anything in life, a relationship at home, your family? I think that that person has got to be a thinker in the very beginning. And there's your pause, and there is that just importance of everybody knowing that the person that's about to speak is gonna be speaking from a thoughtful place. Right. And if they do that, then you're gonna get so much more respect, and I think you're gonna get so much more positive results.

SPEAKER_01 15:50

Yeah, I would agree. Bullseye. You know, I think that yeah. And by the way, Steve, I can't wait to get together with my next oblate group and say, we're gonna take a moment now for pistachio.

SPEAKER_00 16:04

Listen, you cannot cheat and have the ones that are already out of the shell. You gotta work for it. And that helps the pause, right? Before you shove it in your mouth. Gotta work for it.

SPEAKER_01 16:17

There you go. But yeah, I, you know, this idea of what happens when they don't deal with it well. When you see anger, you see blaming, you see, you know, all of the things that that sets them off, now you got people running scared.

SPEAKER_03 16:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:35

And and good decisions can't be made in any business when people are running scared. And so no matter what the leader does to dictate how they are going to deal with that crisis, if they do it in a fashion where it's blaming others, not taking responsibility, anger, all of those kinds of things, whatever decision it is that they're going to make, it will be executed half-assed. Right. Yeah. Because people aren't going to because what people are waiting for is what's going to happen when the other shoe drops. You know, that leader, that leader is pissed and and they're blaming everybody right now. What's the next, what's the next thing that's going to happen? And so why would I, why would I spend my time trying to implement something that they're telling me to do when I'm not sure that they really know what the problem is in the first place. And the fact that if I do that, is that going to lead to more problems? And is it then then they're going to scream some more at me? You know? Yeah. So I I I think it's a it can be a cascading as Randy said. It can it can go it can go from from uh something going awry to a major crisis in a hurry, depending on how the leader handles it.

SPEAKER_00 17:47

Let me just throw you guys a scenario. You, the three of us are in a band, we're in you were part of a band, right? You guys are players in the band. And we got a couple other guys or a girl or whatever. We got we got six pieces on stage, right? And the band is having internal issues off the stage. And you go play a show. I personally, and you could play the show perfectly, but if there's tension in the band, something it may sound fine, but it doesn't feel fine. And when it doesn't feel fine, the crowd senses it. And it's not just something in our own, something's going on when you can tell that these guys aren't really gelling or really. There's something's going on personally with them. Now, there's been a lot of historical bands with a lot of historical problems, right? Uh, a lot of great songs have been written because of those problems internally. This person wanting to be with this person's girlfriend or boyfriend or husband or wife. You know, there's been a lot of sleeparounds and a lot of all that going on. And you can imagine what that does to the performance feeling of what is supposed to be emotionally. And music is that. It's not about being out there being paying playing notes perfectly and going like we all play perfect. No, no, no, no, no. You don't want to play perfect. You want to play right. And that's you got everybody's got to be really gelling off the stage so that it translates on the stage and then it translates to the emotions and feelings of the people that are there to listen.

SPEAKER_03 19:14

This is this is what good cooks understand intuitively. That they take those little things.

SPEAKER_01 19:20

You're talking about the three of us? Okay, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 19:22

Yeah, the resonance cookbook will come out soon. Don't worry about that.

SPEAKER_01 19:25

That's exactly right. We'll have it out for we'll have it on for Christmas. Everybody can get one for Christmas. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 19:31

The thing though, that you know, when you cook, you know the little stuff matters. You know that the time you took with that sauce is what's going to make the difference and blah, blah, blah. So it is the little things, it's the nuances. And what I think we're coming to understand more and more as a culture is that people are extremely perceptive about those nuances. And it it's, you know, it's just like anything. It's like you try on 16 shirts and then you put on that one and you go, oh, this is and it's the little things. It's the fabric or it's the button or it's the thing. And it's like that shirt's now$40 more than the one that looks the same, but doesn't feel at all the same. Yeah. I think about solo shirts, for example. You know, just the classic short sleeve collared you can buy them for$9, or you can buy them for$190. I I think neither of those extremes is probably a good idea. But the ones in the middle that that are really wonderful. So all I'm trying to say, and I'm not saying it very well, is that the leaders that hurt that tension, that that just sort of shove it down, that depress it, create this toxicity in a leadership team. And I can walk into the room and feel it. They haven't said a word. And you just can sit down and you can just go, oh, sometimes it's non-verbal communication, it's the way people are jerking or whatever. Right. But you can just feel it. I roll.

SPEAKER_00 20:54

A lot of times it's not verbal. You're right. Yeah. Right. That's exactly right. It's body language. Yeah. You walk into this thickness in the room or this thickness on stage, like this fog between everybody. That's awful. Back up for a second and let's talk about if we're talking about things going to wry. Think about complex. That's not necessarily complex, but has to be done right. Think about the roux. If you're making a roux, you love to make a roux. Yeah. Sure. How fast a roux goes awry. Well, that's nice, isn't it? If a roux goes awry, okay. If uh in our business, that's called that's called alliteration and a little bit of furniture, guys, in the song. But if that happens, do you just a lot of people just go, oh, it's gonna be okay, I'll continue on. Yeah. But you can't continue on, you gotta throw it away and you gotta start over. Because that rue has to be right.

SPEAKER_03 21:48

If the rue ain't right, nothing is right. That gumbo is gonna suck. No matter what else you do to it, you cannot unscrew that up. And so it's not understanding the foundations, these core of these things. And and That's where one of the things that that I'm I'm dealing a lot with right now is people who are trying to differ strategically differentiate their business by a service model. They're saying we're gonna sort of out service our competitors. We're gonna have a better service experience than somebody else. And then my response is so why isn't all of our focus on that moment of payoff? Why is it that yes, we're saying that's what we're doing, but they're just all the way downstream and everything we're focused on is some weird technology thing or, oh, we're gonna do this with AI or we're gonna do whatever. It's like, no, no, no, no, no, no. You know, unless you're really zoomed in on that that that specific experience that you think is gonna be your differentiator, then what the heck are you doing? You know, you're not paying work that really needs to get done.

SPEAKER_00 22:45

Did you guys go back since we've talked uh last episode and and watch Blackberry? I haven't yet. I haven't yet.

SPEAKER_01 22:52

I've got to do that. We were gonna watch it the other night and then wound up getting tied up doing something else. Randy, did you watch it yet?

SPEAKER_02 23:00

No.

SPEAKER_00 23:00

Okay, well, the bottom line is just things went awry. Yeah. Like a lot, but like a whole lot, you know, and it was just interesting to see how they fell into success, sort of, which leads me to obviously in the long run, it it crashed and burned. But but there were some riches that came out of it, and obviously some technology and a time when it worked and all. But are there times when uh that you've gone into situations where things weren't you kind of look at it, guys, and you're going like, how is this functioning? Like it's a mess going on, but yet it works enough to pay the bills. You know what I mean? But like, and then you're going off, how is this possible? And you scratch your head when you go home and go, like, okay, wait a minute, how is it possible they're standing on their own two feet?

SPEAKER_01 23:44

Yeah, I you know, I would I would say that it gets to kind of get get back to your band example, Steve. Without great chemistry, it can't happen. And from a leadership perspective, if you haven't surrounded your yourself with the right people and created that great chemistry within your leadership team, number one, you don't have anybody to bounce it off of because there's there's angst and tension and everything else between you and your leadership team. So you're not even giving yourself that opportunity to have a trusted team around you. You know, Steve, you've got your guys that have been with you for, you know, a hundred years. And I mean, you trust those guys implicitly. And you guys can have those frank conversations when they need to happen. When a leader doesn't surround himself or herself with that kind of team, with those kind of individuals, you aren't able to generate chemistry. And I can guarantee you that every manager below them and every rank and file employee employee be below that knows that there's tension in that team. And so when it does go awry, when something does happen, that's when it becomes a real mess because now you've got a leadership team and all they want to do is blame each other and led by the person that's that's the CEO or the founder or whoever. And I think that one of the ways that you can overcome this when things go awry is to make sure that you've put yourself in a position where you're surrounded by trusted people, by people that you have great chemistry with, by people that understand what it is you're trying to accomplish with that business. And, you know, I would say, you know, Randy, to your point about the the people that want to do service, you don't just, you don't just take that as a strategy and say that's what we're gonna run with. If it's not in your DNA, I don't care how many people are talking about it, you're not gonna do it very well. And so I think it's really important that people understand that you have to have that chemistry, you have to have those that team around you, and that allows you to be able to react smart and and discerning and coming up with the decisions that need to happen in order to move things ahead positively, depending on what that's one of one of my business partners, uh uh wonderful, super sharp woman, uh tough individual, and we went and visited with a client, and it was it was interesting.

SPEAKER_03 26:14

It was like uh the best way I can say this is we met with their leadership team, and it was a little bit like the Stepford wives. It wasn't about their gender, it was everybody was perfect. Everybody looked perfect, everybody kind of acted perfect, they were all very polite to one another. Interesting. The boardroom was kind of neat and tidy, they had all the little handouts and do you want a coffee or whatever? And we just had this lovely, like 90-minute conversation about basically nothing of substance. There was a whole lot of smoke being blown up the CEO's took us, if you know what I'm saying. They were all Mr. CEO. Oh, you're a wonder, Mr. CEO. Well, the Mr. Because Mr. CEO is doing so good, we're able to do these other things. Anyway, so we leave and we go and we're sitting at dinner that night talking about what we're gonna do with this client. And she finally goes, I don't know about you, but that that was a weird conversation. Yeah. And I said, I kind of felt it too. What did you feel? And she goes, I don't know what I felt, but it was just weird because everything was so tied down, you got the feeling that there was absolutely five meetings after every meeting, and that was exactly the truth. So what happened is they all do the performative meeting where we all act nice, then they would leave the meeting, and then the three or four little groups would then go have their own little meetings about what really should have been said and what really should have happened. And so whenever Randy, so while they happens because the leader has created an echo chamber. The leader has said, This is what I expect us to look like and act like. And as long as we're looking like and acting like this, then we must be doing okay. And that's just not true. It's just not true. And whether I don't it doesn't matter what you think about the current political situation, but when you watch the cabinet meetings that are going on there, there's where nothing occurs because it's all just this glad-handing. I can tell you something is deeply wrong because it looks like everything's going well, right? That's not what it looks like when it's going well. What it looks like when it's going well, it's like a it's like a kitchen that never gets messy. That's not a kitchen. You got to clean it up for sure.

SPEAKER_00 28:15

Okay. We got to talk. Let me go ahead.

SPEAKER_03 28:18

I mean, you and I'm all for clean as you go. There you go. I'm all for it. But it doesn't mean you're not going to drop an egg on the floor. It doesn't mean, I mean, it's like something is going to happen. And so they're so worried about the little things that they're not able to do the work. And I guess what I'm trying to say is it's that trust, that vibe, that chemistry comes from dealing with negative information collectively and that being okay. There's something very powerful about somebody who gets knocked down and then stands back up. It's almost more powerful than if they didn't get knocked down in the first place.

SPEAKER_00 28:52

Because we'll have a story if you don't do that. That's right. If you don't have that happen many times.

SPEAKER_03 28:59

So we're not trying to say, don't ever let anything go awry. That's just ridiculous. And then we're also trying to say that when things do go awry, it is to the very first thing you said, Mike, it is the way you deal with it that is going to set the tone in timber for everything else moving down the road, and it's going to either create more problems or or what have you. So there's a uh a whole bunch of re guess what? There's a ton of research on all of this stuff, and it goes, we've got tones and tones of stuff. But I want to pull out one guy, his name is Eliyahu Goldrat. He was an engineer, Israeli engineer. He's dead now, sadly. But he wrote a very famous book called The Goal. And he's also known to be the father of this concept of the theory of constraints, or TOC as it's used in the academic literature, theory of constraints. And he has a he has a very interesting hypothesis that drives this, and that is he says that there is one and only one constraint, true constraint, that is limiting system performance. And your job is to find out what that is. And I and I think it's a really good thought exercise. What is the one true constraint that's that's in the way of you doing what the mission is? And it if you can, and I and this is this is something I'm gonna just I don't know too many executives who can tell you that. I really I really don't. If you ask them, what's the one constraint that's in your way? They're gonna well, I need more customers. That ain't it.

SPEAKER_02 30:24

Yeah, right, right. Right.

SPEAKER_03 30:26

Right. And all of Toyota manufacturing is based on this one concept. There's always one constraint. As soon as you get that one constraint down, guess what? There's another constraint that's come gonna come up. Right. The minute you have intention, you create the constraint. You just have to see it. And then as soon as you see it, you can attack it, you can dwindle it, you can move around it, you can whatever, and then there's the next constraint. And so Toyota manufacturing is about this cycling of awareness of constraints. And that's why they're continuously improving by what they do all the time. They're not surprised by the constraint. In fact, uh, one of my favorite comments uh that's I think it's posted on a wall in Toyota uh is no constraint is a big problem. The problem is if you think there's no constraint. The problem is not that there's a problem. That's great that there's a problem because now we know what to do. The constraint is the way. The constraint is what you focus on. What is it? What is that Star Wars guy that it is the way? What is it? Mandalorian. That's who he is. The Mandalorian. Yeah. That's what it is. The constraint is the way. So when you see a constraint, and a good leader does this, good leader sees it. Oh, there's right on. You know, that's outstanding. I think of uh the uh famous Marine, Chesty Puller. You guys know about him? You should look up Chesty Puller. He's an interesting guy. He's the guy like 1950s, 60s. Ended up he was a Marine, just I don't know what you call him, boot marine, and now and he retired as a general. And he's famous for all these wonderful quotes like, Sir, we're completely surrounded. The enemy is surrounded us on all sides. And Chesty would say something like, Uh, it's right where we want them. Now we know where they are, you know? And it's like you know, he was always the guy who would take that terrible negative information and go, isn't that fantastic? You know, hang on.

SPEAKER_01 32:22

You know, it's the marine version of Yogi Berra.

SPEAKER_03 32:25

Yeah, yeah. I feel sorry for those guys. They think they're they're they're all that, but no, no, no, it's bad news. And that this is that kind of pivot that comes with realizing the constraint is a yay thing if you approach it. And now it's a way for us to to work together as a team.

SPEAKER_01 32:42

And I would and I would also say from a leadership perspective, what most leaders don't understand is the first constraint is up here. Yes, you know, that that it's it's the mindset of of understanding that part of the constraint, and maybe a big part of the constraint, is right here.

SPEAKER_02 33:01

Feral's the way I'm thinking. It's the way I'm thinking.

SPEAKER_03 33:04

He's jamming. You're exactly correct. That's where it's the limitations that you're carrying around in here. Exactly. And this is why the the the Gold Rat stuff connects directly to this concept called sense making. And so it's not about making sense. Making sense is you imposing your stuff on it to make it make sense to you. Sense making is saying, why does this why is this happening? What's going on in the world where this happens?

SPEAKER_01 33:29

Right.

SPEAKER_03 33:30

Why does it make perfect sense that this thing is broken? Why does it make perfect sense that my that my bass player is stoned on the stage?

SPEAKER_00 33:39

There's not a lot of sense playing going on in the world. You know, people people have lost that trait. Uh I gotta ask you something. I gotta ask Mike something. Because you always talk about this with the monk principles and stuff. The word stability is jumping off the page to me right now in my mind. I think about the importance of that during these times when things get tough and sideways. Also, accountability. Those two things to me, and these are absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 34:08

I mean, yeah, it really, yeah, it really is, you know, that stability aspect. And and I've I've talked about this before, but you know, the Benedictins talk about stability. Benedict writes in the rule the types of monks, and the monks that he really wants are the Cenobites who are grounded to and and to the monastery or the abbey or whatever they are, they take that vow and they're there for life. And then you've got these other monks that are the gyrovags that one of my all-time favorite terms.

SPEAKER_03 34:43

I would be in that category.

SPEAKER_01 34:49

The grass is greener on the other side of the hill. And so, really, that stability aspect though, what it allows us to do is we know that we have a foundation that's not going to change, that is gonna be anchored. And so when we have that foundation, it doesn't matter how hard the wind blows. Where it's like that big oak tree down in in Mississippi. That sucker's been there for 300 years, and I don't care how big a wind you get, it ain't moving. You know, it's got such an incredible root system. And so the stability aspect is really important. The accountability aspect, that's a whole different ballgame because there is the leader allowing accountability. Is the leader allowing someone to hold him or her accountable? If if if if all they're doing is holding everybody else accountable, then that's a one-way street. But if the leader is allowing others to hold them accountable, now you've got give and take. Now you've got an accountability system. Uh, you know, Marshall Goldsmith, who's one of the top business executive coaches in the world, always talks about these 360-degree feedback things that he does, and getting that feedback from people, and I do this with with my clients all the time, is getting the other people around him or her to really give us honest, true feedback about what it is they're doing. And that that's an accountability piece. That's how am I impacting those around me and and how am I taking that constructive criticism when I'm maybe I'm maybe off base here and I need to be able to, and again, that gets back to another one of my favorite Benedictine principles is listening with the ear of your heart. If if you can't listen to those around you with respect, with understanding, with empathy, with compassion, then I can guarantee you when things do go awry, you're sure as heck not gonna listen to everything else that's going on. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 36:48

Another simple technique we can use is uh those after action stand-up. Yeah. We called them hot washes. So you just had the problem, didn't go well, we've done the solution best we can. So now we're gonna have a stand-up. What happened? Why did this happen? And what you learn from people who do this all the time in the military and others, the idea that you learn very quickly is if you don't want to get called out, be like, well, Farrell screwed it up because he didn't do this or that. Then Mike knows, though, when he comes into our session, he's gonna go, hey, that was me. I did that.

SPEAKER_01 37:16

That was on me.

SPEAKER_03 37:17

That was on me. And so what you do is you teach and you learn how the uh the economy of accountability works in that organization. If Farrell says, that wasn't me, I'm pointing at everybody else, then then it gets weird because now we're starting to now we don't trust Farrell and now there's big trouble and blah, blah, blah. And so the the whole thing starts to fall apart. That's why I think having a moment of reflection as a group, as a team, where accountability is shared candidly. And then you dust your hands and you move on to the next thing. And then you try and see if it's repeated over time, you know, again, you know, it was a problem. Right another, another thing altogether. But I think you have to have this kind of it's weird because it's not exactly on the record, but it is shared. It is real people talking.

unknown 38:09

Right.

SPEAKER_03 38:09

And we're finding that they those things don't go as well virtually. So this is one of the places where having uh there seems to be something magical about literally standing next to each other and having this conversation.

SPEAKER_00 38:23

Sure. As opposed to I think it's time to send it packing. Bring us home, Steve. I get to intro and bring us home, I'll bring you home because I've listened to both of you. I've learned a whole lot. Uh also thought about a lot of things that I've gone through over the course of my career that none of us that wake up in the morning breathing and go to work, involved in family life, uh, involved in the music world and be have bands in the studio, in the office place, on the field, on the court, no matter where. We are gonna deal with things that will go awry. And it's just the way it is. How you respond to that is gonna be the key to making it to tomorrow. And it's just so imperative that you think about taking a second and pausing, right? So important. Accountability to me, that's really stuck out today, even though it was one of the last things we talked about. I think it was weaving in and out of y'all's discussions, our discussions today for sure. And I love the fact that that not only does the team have to be held accountable, the leader of that team has to be held accountable, it creates incredible respect all throughout the entire organization, throughout your family, uh, throughout your band. And I just think that you can get over things a lot quicker, you can solve problems a lot quicker, and on to the next challenge because guess what? You don't know when it's coming, but it's gonna go awry. And when it does, you want to be on the right side of that. You want to be able to always work out these problems that are gonna be constant in your journey as long as you're in business. Constraints away.

SPEAKER_03 39:58

Yep, that's it. A delight. I hope everybody tunes into this and uh shares it with their friends and uses this as a chance to talk about this stuff in their own office place. What is the constraint that is between you and success? Have that conversation with yourself and others. It'll be wild.

SPEAKER_01 40:13

And find out where it is between your own ears. There you go. Well said. Yeah. All right, well, that's that'll wrap us up. Go ahead, Steve. Mike, take us, take us to the that'll wrap us up for today's episode of Resonance. Again, you can find us at resonanceleader.com uh or any of your favorite every any of your favorite uh podcast platforms. You can watch the video version on YouTube. And don't forget, too, we also offer uh a leadership experience called Resonance Live. Uh Steve and his band will come in and and entertain you the evening before, and then the three of us will take your leadership teams through uh a really unique experience. And the cool part of that experience is the last piece where Steve's actually gonna sit down and write a song with your leadership team as your new leadership anthem.

SPEAKER_00 40:59

So that whole band thing, you gotta have some cash for that.

unknown 41:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:04

You can't just get me. Well, anyway, just go ahead.

SPEAKER_01 41:07

All right. Well, that'll wrap us up for today, and uh, we'll see you next time on Resonance.

SPEAKER_00 41:13

Later on.com.